Syllogistic Argument About The Coming "Messiah" (Daniel 9:24, 25)

[Apollyon (Rev. 9:11)]

SYLLOGISTIC ARGUMENT ABOUT THE COMING "MESSIAH" (DANIEL 9:24, 25)

[Article taken from CrossingEuphrates.com Discussion Board]

Syllogism is a kind of logical argument that applies deductive reasoning to arrive at a conclusion based on two propositions that are asserted or assumed to be true. In its earliest form, a syllogism arises when two true premises validly imply a conclusion, or the main point that the argument aims to get across. -- Wikipedia

Syllogism

1: a formal argument consisting of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion (as in "every virtue is laudable; kindness is a virtue; therefore kindness is laudable")

2: deductive reasoning

SYLLOGISM - PROPOSITION - PROPOSAL CONCERNING MESSIAH

1) Per Genesis 3:15 "Messiah" is to come from Adam & Eve. Jehovah is speaking here a prophecy, the first prophecy in the bible, and He made this point very, very clear. This is the Major Premise.

2) Jesus did NOT come from or actually descend from Adam & Eve. (Joseph clearly had no part in the physical birth of Jesus. Jehovah Himself made that impossible. This means Mary was a "surrogate" mother. -- See Matthew 1:20-25) This makes this birth, a miraculous birth. This is the Minor Premise.

A. Psalms 45:16 (Did Jesus actually have earthly "forefathers"?)

B. Psalms 89:27 (Messiah is "firstborn" among mankind. But, . ..is this true of Jesus?
Was not Jesus "firstborn" from heavens, "firstborn from all creation," not earth? Jesus does not need to be "appointed," "made to be" or "placed to be" "firstborn" . . . he does not need to be given or accredited this position. He has this, naturally. (See Colossians 1:15.)

3) Therefore, Jesus CANNOT be The "Messiah" of Daniel 9th chapter.

Additionally, consider this:

Daniel 9:24, 25 says Messiah was to "bring in righteousness for times indefinite" or "brings everlasting righteousness" to earth, at the end of "Seventy Weeks." Can we really say, Jesus actually did this?

Someone else has been appointed by The "Most High" (Psalms 83:18) to carry this out, and fulfill this grand prophecy. (See Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 49:1-7.)

Think about it.

Article written by: Donald C. Burney

To get a more in depth, extensive approach to this topic, please see this link: http://www.yorww.com/mistake.html

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[Apollyon (Rev. 9:11)]

**

Two (2) Questions for all Jehovah's Witnesses (Former or Current), according to the bible:

1. Did Adam and Eve . . . COME FROM . . . Jehovah God & Jesus [God's Son]
(See Genesis 1:26, 27; Colossians 1:15; 16 New World Translation.) Quote: "Let US . . .US . . . make man in OUR ... OUR ...image and according to OUR ... OUR ... LIKENESS . . ."

Or,

2. Did Jesus [God's Son] . . . COME FROM . . . Adam and Eve as their "seed"? . . . Which? (See Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:20-25.)

Think about it.

Article written by: Donald C. Burney

To get a more in depth, extensive approach to this topic, please see this link: http://www.yorww.com/3statements.html

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[Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)]

Hi,

Does DC Burney do miracles?

Why say he is a messiah?

Shiloh

[Apollyon (Rev. 9:11)]

Hi,

Does DC Burney do miracles?

Why say he is a messiah?

Shiloh

Hello Shiloh,

I am Donald C Burney. I am the admin and owner of this discussion board.

Glad to have you with us.

No, I don't do miracles, at all. Never have ever done one in my entire life. I don't speak to invisible spirits, don't talk to ghosts at night, in my bedroom. I don't get my crazy ideas (as some refer to it) from weird sources, voodoo, fortune-tellers, etc. but only God's Word, the 66 books we call the bible. That is where I formed my primary, core of beliefs, independent of the WTBTS and its GB. I was around the JW Organization prior to the empowerment of the Governing Body, back in January 1976. I was serving as a Min. Servant, "serving where-the-need-was-greater" in central Alabama, Reg, Pioneering, Public speaker, and was married ,at that time. I was in my early twenties back then.

To answer your question, a "messiah" does not have to do miracles, at all. He is primarily a teacher. Actually the Greek word for "messiah" or "Christ" just means an "anointed" one. The word comes from the literal Greek word Kristos which means "anointed." Like a person is "anointed" for a special task before God, like a "priest" or "king." This is the way the word is used in the bible.

. . . hope this helps.

Apollyon

[Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)]

Apollyon,

I can appreciate what you are saying. I can see where you are coming from. However in this modern age, normally people would expect a "messiah" from Jehovah, to do miracles, or at least have miraculous dealings with God, wouldn't they?

I mean, no offense, but being the "messiah" is a big deal. Or, am I alone on this viewpoint?

Shiloh

[Apollyon (Rev. 9:11)]

Yes, I would have to agree. So, just as you said, Jehovah is going to have to have a large hand in this matter. A Great miracle must be performed, on His part. The bible speaks of this as being the "revealing of the Son of Man." (See Luke 17:24, 30)

Jehovah is going to perform a very, grand miracle Himself, to accomplish this feat.

There are many verses in the bible, that refer to this grand miracle.

Actually, we ran a full-page color Ad in the Gleaner newspaper, to explain this grand miracle, which is called the "Glory of Jehovah." (Isaiah 66:18, 19)

Here is a link to that Ad, which was run July 7th, 2012 in Jamaica, W.I.: https://www.livingwatersforum.com/yor/o ... or2012.pdf

In short, we need to give a close look at Isaiah 55:13. It describes this miracle, and its powerful effect upon all mankind. It states:

Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.” -- Isaiah 55:13 NIV

The above quoted verse says this miraculous event, will be "AN EVERLASTING SIGN, THAT WILL ENDURE FOREVER with all of mankind, for all eternity! Is that big enough an event for you?

Yes, I think it is.

This is called: "Jehovah's Day" in the bible. This is the time, when finally, Jehovah receives all of the Glory for what He has accomplished, far, far away from the Trinity teaching, of making Jesus, God's Son, Almighty God . . a great blasphemy on mankind's part! (See Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 42:8)

Jehovah knows exactly what mankind needs, to accomplish such a feat.

Of course, there are many more verses that speak of this grand event, in the bible.

I would be happy to share them with you, if you like.

...just let me know.

Apollyon

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[work4jah]

Apollyon:

Over the give or take 30 years that I spent at the KH, I was never taught these things. I never even imagined them during my own Bible reading, so how was it that an event this HUGE and spectacular could be there and I didn't see it?

Just wondering how a huge event like that could be missed.

Thanks,
work4jah

[Apollyon (Rev. 9:11)]

Apollyon:

Over the give or take 30 years that I spent at the KH, I was never taught these things. I never even imagined them during my own Bible reading, so how was it that an event this HUGE and spectacular could be there and I didn't see it?

Just wondering how a huge event like that could be missed.

Thanks,
work4jah

...because the Watchtower Society does not know of these things, to teach Jehovah's Witnesses. That's why Jehovah's Witnesses do not know of these things.

That's why you attended the kingdom hall for so many years and did not come to understand these things. (I attended the kingdom halls for 40 years and did not come to know of these things too, just like you.) These things are "sacred secrets," that were "hidden" since the "founding of the world," in God's Hand. (See Matthew 13:35; Jeremiah 33:3; Revelation 5:1-5)

Jehovah's Witnesses, like all mankind, are strictly limited to the knowledge of bible understanding, coming from the Watchtower Society and/or all human bible scholars, the sum total of what they know, that God has allowed mankind to know. ((Deut. 29:29)

The "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:3 does not have these limitations. He is a future, "coming" messiah,like Jesus. (Matthew 11:3) He will foretell future world wide events, that will impact all of mankind. (Revelation 6:4-8) He will be a "light" to the entire earth. (Isaiah 49:1-7; John 16:13, 14) He has direct-access to Jehovah, the Almighty, thankfully for the benefit of all mankind.

[For more detail information on the topic of the "East Gate," see this link: http://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137 ]

Apollyon

[Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)]

So, this is a prediction-kind-of-thing, right?

I mean, he predicts great things that will come upon the earth in the future. That makes him the "messiah." Is that what you are saying?

[work4jah]

So, this is a prediction-kind-of-thing, right?

I mean, he predicts great things that will come upon the earth in the future. That makes him the "messiah." Is that what you are saying?

Greetings Shiloh:

What I get from my study of the scriptures on this topic, is that Jehovah's Word can be understood, but only with the help of "a Helper," (John 16:7) a "messiah" to teach us biblical things, bible prophecy, correctly. (See John 4:25.) Because a state of apostasy exists today in the Christian Congregation, per James 4:4, and the existence of the "Man of LAWLESSNESS" among God's people and Temple (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12), we can see the Watchtower Society & Governing Body in a new light, scripturally-speaking. According to Ezekiel 43:6-9, Jehovah is very angry that his Holy Name has been "defiled." He also says "His Throne" will be in this new temple, shown in the book of Ezekiel, and that He will live among the Israelites, forever, in this Temple. -- Ezekiel 48:35

I went over to the thread on the "East Gate" (Ezekiel's Temple) and here's what I wanted to share:

Therefore, what we today see pictured here, in both visions of the future, is the work of re-building God's Temple, or God's People being rebuilt, re-organized and re-educated people, into a spiritual "temple" structure for Jehovah. (1 Corinthians 3:16, 17) This is shown in the fact that in both temple structures, Jehovah has found permanent residence within them. -- See Ezekiel 43:4-9; Ezekiel 48:35; Revelation 21:3, 4; Revelation 22:3.

So this messiah could teach truth from Jehovah because he gets it directly from Jehovah.

This also ties into the "spirit of truth" in John 16:13 which says,

"But when he, the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears and he will tell you what is yet to come."

At Ezekiel 44:3, there is only one person called the "prince/chieftain" that is said to enter into this place called the "East Gate" to "eat bread" in the presence of the LORD Jehovah. Remember, this temple appears in the "last days " It is a future temple. -- See Ezekiel Chapters 40-48.

There is a lot of light here, a light that I had been searching for every year when I went to my assigned District Conventions of Jehovah's Witnesses. Every year I left with some new release, a new book maybe that had no new light. I was starved and I desperately wanted to know what Jehovah was doing and when His kingdom would be bringing this "new earth" and the 1000 year reign of His kingdom. But I never found it there.

But this information, it is what I was searching for. This is a miracle, this special educational work of the messiah because it comes directly from Jehovah himself. It is inspired information. -- 2 Peter 1:21

work4jah